6.03.2025
To let or not to let – is the big question
We’d like to open the discussion on another important aspect of the motion:
Should we lease the hall to a third party?
Although this has been briefly discussed in the earlier feedback, it’s essential
that we delve deeper to make a well-informed decision.
To guide your thoughts, here’s some background information. The hall is owned
outright, with the trust deeds held by the Cutchi Community Centre (formerly
the Cutchi Muslim Association) and signed by the trustees. I’m happy to report
that all bank loans secured against the property have been fully paid off.
Additionally, there were small loans provided to the Cutchi Community by its
members in 1988, which I will verify and include in the financial report at a later
time.
Currently, there is no formal lease agreement with the existing tenant, only a
“gentlemen’s agreement.” The rental income from the hall since July 2021 has
been £2,000 per month, minus expenses like structural repairs, building
insurance, etc. In return, the tenant has informally agreed to uplift and maintain
the property at their own expense, offer discounted rates to Cutchi community
members (subject to availability), and provide the hall free of charge for our Niaz
function (which happens twice a year) if the space is available.
Since there is no signed lease, we have the flexibility to either terminate the
arrangement with appropriate notice or pursue a long-term lease that benefits
the Cutchi Community. I would like to gather your opinions on which direction we should take. If we decide to move forward with either a short-term or long-
term lease, what terms should be included to ensure it’s beneficial to our
community?
We are meeting with the tenant, solicitor, and commercial property valuer next
week, and I can take your feedback into that discussion.
JZK
7.03.2025
To let or not to let – is the big question
Thank you for all the messages so far in relation to whether or not to rent out
the hall. As we eagerly await more responses on this motion, we would like to
take the opportunity to address some misconceptions.
It has been implied that when the hall needed work, which was carried out by a
third party, no one seemed concerned. Now, there seems to be a strong reaction
simply because the hall is receiving attention overer Mustaq’s transformaƟon.
Firstly, with due respect, no one is considering kicking out the Ivy venue without
due diligence, and as far as I can see, there’s no threat of any legal
consequences.
Furthermore, it has also been implied that none of us have invested our own
money into the hall. This is far from true. As pointed out, passionately,
historically, our hall was supported from the ground up by our elders. Both men
and women worked tirelessly in freezing conditions, overseeing the builders and
even doing some of the work themselves in the 1980s. We know who these
dedicated elders were, and we honour those who have passed away—may Allah
bless them all with Jannah.
In recent years, I’ve witnessed a similar dedication from our members. To name
just a few: Abdul Satar, Rahim Bhaƫti and the late Amirali Kana (forgive me for
not mentioning others but your time will come to be mentioned) each of whom
has invested significantly in the hall, both financially and physically, by attending
to repairs, maintenance, and extensions and paying utility bills when times were
hard.
While Mustaq has made contributions to the hall, his focus has primarily been
on cosmetic improvements. However, the reality behind these decorative
changes, as we (the task force members) discovered when we inspected the
building last week, is concerning. Any attempts at structural modifications have
been poorly executed, leaving the hall in a dangerous and incomplete state,
contributing to health and safety risks for both the people and the building itself.
Mustaq’s approach and rightly so, seems to be business-driven, focusing on rent that benefits him personally, rather than providing long-term benefits for our community.
We should certainly appreciate the efforts of our elders and avoid misusing the
hall for personal gain. As a task force members, we have no declared conflict of
interest in the direcƟon of travel. However, we will not rest unƟl we have made a
compelling case for ensuring that the hall’s use aligns with the best interests of
the Cutchi Community. Let’s consider all perspecƟves as we move forward to
achieve the goals and vision we’ve set.
8.03.2025 TO LET or NOT TO LET
As members of the task force, we would like to reiterate that we have no conflict
of interest and are not aiming to influence the decision in either direction. Our
role has been to collect your feedback and provide you with all the necessary
information to enable you to make an informed contribution to the debate. Our
objective here is to present a balanced view of your responses.
Arguments in Favour of Letting the Hall
- Improvements & Maintenance It was fortunate that Ivy Venue took on the
tenancy in July 2021, even though the decision to lease the hall wasn’t
unanimous and legal considerations weren’t fully explored at the time.
Since then, Ivy Venue has made significant decorative and some structural
improvements, all at their own expense and they have used their
resources to enhance the hall’s condition. - Financial Benefits While the rent may be modest, it generates some
disposable income. Since July 2021, a total of £90,000 has been raised
(£2,000 per month). This rent is consistently paid on time, and Ivy Venue, a
registered company, handles the venue’s operations. Cutchi members
benefit from reduced rates for bookings, as well as religious functions at no
cost. We have the opportunity to renegotiate the lease under better terms. - Self-Sufficiency & Stability Under Ivy Venue’s management, there’s no
need for dedicated volunteers from the Cutchi community to manage
bookings, easing the burden on the community. This arrangement has
allowed the hall to remain sustainable and self-maintained. - Moral Consideration Ivy Venue has invested significant time and effort into
running the hall over the past three years. Allowing them to continue
would be a moral recognition of their commitment and would help
prevent disruption to their business, sparing them from the potential
difficulty of an abrupt change.
Arguments Against Letting the Hall
- Financial Sustainability and Responsibility To understand the financial
situation, we must consider the past. Prior to July 2021, hall bookings were
infrequent and income from membership was minimal. The costs of
running the hall were high, making maintenance a significant challenge.
The committee often had to “beg, borrow, and steal” (figure of speech!!) to
keep bailiffs at bay and prevent the hall’s closure. Members contributed
personally, making repairs and paying bills with limited funds. Although the
work was some what perceived as disorganized, they did their best to
prevent us from sinking into severe debt.
In contrast, since 2021, Ivy Venue has paid us a total of £90,000. Some of
this has gone toward building insurance, repairs, unpaid taxes, zakat (since
2021), and legal and property valuer’s fees to create the lease. Recently,
however, we discovered significant neglect in the building’s structure,
including a leaking roof, broken doors, and extensive water damage. Ivy
Venue is now pressuring us to carry out repairs which must be done by
certified professionals to meet legal and safety standards. Before the lease,
we could have handled these repairs ourselves with minimal cost, but now
we face potentially high expenses. This could quickly deplete the £90,000
and put the hall at financial risk once again. In the long run, maintaining
the hall with just £24,000 per year may not be sustainable. - A Call for Self-Management A closer analysis of the profit and loss account
suggests that the income from the tenancy alone could lead us into a loss
whereas the real value may lie in managing the bookings ourselves ,we
could avoid the costs of hiring expensive so-called certified professionals
for repairs as there would be no landlord – tenant agreement to worry
about and we could maintain the facility for a fraction of the cost. This
would allow us to keep all the profits from the hall’s operations, directly
benefitting the community. - A More Sustainable Model for the Future There has been criticism of past
committee members for alleged poor performance in running and
managing the hall, but it is essential to note that the previous committee
was made up of only two men who carried an immense burden. Going
forward, we anticipate a full active Cutchi committee, organised and
employing full-time staff to manage the hall facility. We would offer
flexible booking options, open to public with reduced rates for Cutchi
members and more opportunities for community activities. More
importantly remain on top of the maintenance and repair of the hall
structure and contents. This approach would better align with our mission
to serve the community rather than relying on external tenants or seeking
bookings in other expensive venues.
- Emotional Consideration The hall was built by our parents with hard work
and dedication, with the intention of serving the community. Many of us
fear that if we continue renting it out for financial gain (or loss!!), we may
lose sight of its original purpose. Converting it into a commercial property
could undermine its legacy, and we might lose the essence of why it was
built—a space for the community to come together.
Conclusion
Both sides present compelling arguments. With all the informaƟon provided, we
trust that you will form your own opinion and contribute thoughƞully to answer
the quesƟon:
TO LET or NOT TO LET?
09.03.2025
STATEMENT RELEASE
Thank you both, Satar (the legend has spoken!!) and Nazir, for your
input. Before I address your points, please allow me to clarify a
housekeeping matter. During my watch, everyone is encouraged to
express themselves freely, with the only requirement being that we
refrain from being abusive or using foul language. As our charter
states, we respect one another and strive to understand each other’s
ideas, concerns, and expectaƟons. No one should feel sidelined or
outspoken. While we may not always agree with someone’s response
or comment, that’s the essence of democracy – it gives us the means
to navigate through our differences. This is democracy, and we must
accept our differences while allowing respect and decorum to guide
us. So, please conƟnue to speak up and stay acƟvely engaged, but
always avoid crossing the line into abusiveness. So far, Alhamdulillah,
every comment and piece of feedback has been appropriate and
justified.
As I explained yesterday, I have thought about the consequences of
signing the lease without the proper preparation, and this could put
us in a difficult situation. Yes, as Boris Johnson once said, “we will get
it done,” but look at where that mindset led him. There is pressure to
finalize things, but we must proceed with cauƟon to avoid ending up
in a similar situaƟon. Signing the lease is a legal maƩer, and it needs
to be handled with care and aƩenƟon. We haven’t had a lease in
place for the past three years, and Ivy House are decent people, so
there’s no need to rush. The worst-case scenario is that we might not
benefit from two months of rent upliŌ, but I believe we can manage
if this helps avoid any potenƟal future problems.
As requested by a member, I have provided below a basic visual representation of the
predicted income generated from either leasing out or not leasing out the hall. If anyone
requires further clarification, please feel free to reach out on this platform. Income Generated
Time
Income Generated by Cutchi Community Centre
Leased Out
Not Leased Out Servcice Provision
Time
11.03.2025
Let’s begin our journey of exploring imagination. Imagine you have a car, but
you leave it parked in your garage, never driving it. Yet, you still pay for
insurance, road tax, and the MOT. Then, one day, your neighbour drives into
your car and almost wrecks it. Over some, you realize it’s not worth it, lose
interest, and let it fall into disrepair, but you’re stuck with this failing car.
Now, picture this: you have a car, build your reputation, invite people to your
garage for weddings and other events, keep the car parked outside, and
serve food to your guests at reasonable prices. Suddenly, you’re laughing all
the way to the bank.
You have a vision. You’ve got some money, a car, and a space – so why not
match-fund? You put in half the money, and the grant-awarding organisation
covers the rest. Now, you can use the garage to host free events for your
community, at no additional cost to you. The best part? Your half of the
investment is tied up in the garage, a real, tangible asset. Soon, the money
starts rolling in.
So, what do you do with that money? More match fixing – oopppps, I mean
funding – and it keeps growing. Meanwhile, you’re still hosting events,
charging people a premium for the food you serve. But then, you start to
wonder: What’s all this money really for?
Suddenly, it hits you: you don’t need all these people coming in for food
every day. You want to leave more days open for your own community to use
the garage for their activities. You even consider giving them means-tested
financial support to keep members engaged. Here’s what you could offer:
10.03.2025
- Elected commiƩee members who receive training for their roles.
- Promoting Islam through gatherings and at least four Niaz events per
year. - Funeral arrangements fully covered.
- Discounted Ivy venue hire rates for members, plus hosting the
Community AGM.
Hiring halls, like Audley Sports Centre, for member functions such as
sports events.
- Culturally specific counseling services.
- Supporting the physical, spiritual, and mental well-being of members.
- Providing support for children, vulnerable adults, and victims of
domestic abuse. - Annual celebrations for children who excel academically.
- Scholarships for children.
- A minibus for trips to other towns and outings.
- A dedicated team of volunteers.
- Engaging professionals, like solicitors and accountants, to
safeguard our interests, and accredited workers to handle hall repairs. - Annual building insurance payments.
But then, you start to think why all this “MATHA KUTI ?” Maybe it would be
easier just to park the car and pay for the expensive service you can’t afford.
More importantly why bother to invest in our own Cutchi community?
11.03.2025
Why delay shuƫng the polls.
We believe it’s crucial to explain why we need to delay the
closure of the polls that are currently open. The quesƟon of
whether to let or not to let is highly significant and will have a
long-term impact on every member of the Cutchi Community.
While I won’t go into further detail at this point, I trust
everyone can grasp the importance of this maƩer.
As for the second debate, I feel the realizaƟon has finally
dawned. The “coin has dropped”! When I previously menƟoned
the “madness” in our method, I was referring to the process
we’ve undertaken to encourage a thought-provoking
discussion, which helps us truly understand the importance of
making well-informed decisions. Although earlier messages
hinted at criƟcal thinking, the quesƟons raised this morning are
much deeper and more meaningful, and they will help us shape
a beƩer future, grounded in careful consideraƟon of the facts.
The results of the survey on the provision of services are
academic at this stage, and, as I menƟoned, the quesƟon was a
DIY one anyway. However, the poll on whether to let or not to
let is much more important.
I always remind my team that, no maƩer what decision we
make, there will always be some flaws in it. The key is to ensure
that a proper and thoughƞul process is followed when making
that decision. It’s encouraging to see that this understanding is
finally taking hold, and we must now conƟnue to move forward.
For now, I urge everyone to keep casƟng their votes.
JZK